Nancy Pelosi and the End of Fashion Diplomacy
'This Week' Transcript 2-thirteen-22: Speaker Nancy Pelosi & Sen. Lindsey Graham
This is a blitz transcript of "This Calendar week" airing Sunday, Feb 13.
A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, February 13, 2022 on ABC News is below. This re-create may not be in its final form, may exist updated and may comprise pocket-size transcription errors. For previous prove transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.
Journalist: "This Week With George Stephanopoulos" starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS Week" Anchor (voice-over): On the brink.
JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Any American in Ukraine should leave as soon as possible.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The U.S., allies and Russia all order evacuation of embassies in Kyiv.
SULLIVAN: Our view, that war machine action could occur any 24-hour interval at present.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Biden and Putin speak in a terminal-ditch effort to avert war.
We comprehend it all this morning was Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and key Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, both "This Week" exclusives.
Plus: soaring inflation.
UNIDENTIFIED Female person: When you get to the supermarket with $100, it doesn't get as far as it used to.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): This state of affairs is real. It'southward harming people.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What can exist done? How will it touch the midterms?
That and all the week's politics on our powerhouse roundtable.
And 50 years after Watergate, a warning for those involved in the Jan 6 attacks in a new memoir from one of President Nixon'southward close aides.
DWIGHT CHAPIN, Old Adjutant TO PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON: Tell the truth, let the chips fall where they may. You can always recover. I'm living proof that you tin can recover.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's "This Week."
Here now, George Stephanopoulos.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Practiced morning, and welcome to "This Week."
The large question every bit nosotros come up on the air, volition Russian federation invade Ukraine this week? That's the alarm correct now from the White House. The U.Due south. and other Western nations are closing downwardly their embassies in Kyiv, ordering personnel to leave the country, as more than troops are sent to the region.
But diplomacy continues as well. President Biden held a one-hr telephone call with Vladimir Putin yesterday, warning an invasion would trigger swift and astringent costs. French President Macron also spoke with Putin. More talks are scheduled for this week.
The crisis is fluid, confusing and tense.
Our coverage begins this morning with Terry Moran in Kyiv, Mary Bruce at the White House.
Good morning, Mary.
MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: George, proficient forenoon.
Well, the lesser line is that this phone call between Vladimir Putin and President Biden did non produce much progress. After speaking for a little over an hr, we were told there was no fundamental change.
Biden once again stressed to Putin that invading Ukraine would pb to swift and severe costs to Russia. And he cautioned that in that location would be widespread man suffering. Biden, nosotros're told, also was straight with Putin well-nigh his concerns for the safety and security of Americans in Ukraine as well.
Now, the Kremlin this morning says the U.Due south. is trying to create a sense of hysteria. Merely the White House says that Russia's actions speak louder than its words. And, right now, nosotros are seeing that continued buildup along the border and a lack of de-escalation, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And, Mary, this is based on intelligence the White House has seen about a possible invasion this week?
BRUCE: It is.
And, George, await, nosotros are told that the two teams agreed to continue to engage, only that does not hateful that there won't be armed forces activity by the Russians. And so, correct at present, the U.S. is continuing down these two paths of diplomacy and deterrence. And they simply say that they do not know if Putin has fabricated upwardly his mind whether to invade or non, but that he certainly could in the next few days, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Mary Bruce, thank you.
Let's go to Terry Moran in Kyiv.
And, Terry, there seems to be some cognitive dissonance between what we're hearing from the White Business firm, what you're seeing on the ground there in Kyiv.
TERRY MORAN, ABC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It'due south surreal, George.
In one sense, Ukraine is clearly a country on the knife's edge. Ukrainian forces are on high alert. Reservists are mobilized. The mayor of Kyiv has announced an evacuation plan for the city'due south three million citizens.
But life nevertheless feels normal here. People are still out and about final dark, Sabbatum night. Sun traffic is light, lines at the airport a picayune bit longer. But there's no blitz for the borders.
And role of the reason for that is that the Ukrainian government has taken a very different view and a very different tone, President Zelensky of Ukraine maxim that all the warnings of a Russian invasion are just sowing the seeds of fear. He says the U.South. is creating a panic, which he chosen -- quote -- "the best friend of our enemies."
Meanwhile, the Russian military machine buildup continues, more boots on the footing effectually the state'south borders, more ships at body of water off the coast. And at present major airlines are because the possibility of suspending flights into Ukraine, the Dutch carrier KLM already deciding to stop flights hither.
And a Portuguese flight today to Ukraine was redirected in mid-flight to Moldova because the visitor's insurer had decided that it would not fly into Ukraine anymore.
But, as I said, the people here just don't really believe it. It may exist wishful thinking. Last night, I was talking to a boyfriend at a pub just down the street here, and he said: No invasion. There will be no invasion. This is all just an information war -- George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Terry Moran, thanks very much.
We're joined now by the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi.
Madam Speaker, give thanks y'all for coming in again this morning.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): My pleasure. Skilful morn.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, we -- y'all just saw those reports right there.
The White House is warning of an imminent invasion of Ukraine. The Ukrainians seem to think that that's all hype.
Are -- do you believe that Putin is poised to invade?
PELOSI: Well, I recollect we accept to exist prepared for it. And that is what the president is -- aye, I do believe that he is prepared for an invasion.
I besides understand why the President of Ukraine wants to continue people calm and that he wants his economic system not to suffer. But, on the other hand, if nosotros were not threatening the sanctions and the residuum, information technology would guarantee that Putin would invade. Let's promise that diplomacy works.
Information technology's well-nigh affairs deterrence. Diplomacy deterrence. And the president's made it very clear. There's a big price to pay for Russian federation to go there. And so if Russia doesn't invade, it's not that he never intended to. It'due south just that the sanctions worked.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Are yous convinced that President Biden is doing everything he can to forestall an invasion? Is Congress doing everything y'all tin to prevent an invasion?
PELOSI: Well, look, I'one thousand very proud of the work that the president has done. The unity of our allies and NATO to come to an agreement as to the severity of the sanctions is very, very of import. And that is -- that is something that Putin should pay very close attention to.
Actually, our allies in Europe can suffer sometimes from some of the sanctions because of the impact information technology has on them and nonetheless they are there fully on the sanctions forepart. Yes, we in Congress -- the sanctions are the tactic the president is taking. He can do that by executive order. Information technology would exist amend if we could practice it --
STEPHANOPOULOS: What should President Putin know from you lot, the Speaker of the House, about the consequences of an invasion?
PELOSI: Well, the fact is, is that we call up that an assault on Ukraine is an set on on democracy. And that we are not -- nosotros sympathize the loss of life, the damage, the collateral damage to civilians, to armed services, and the rest are severe, if he decides to invade.
The mothers in Russia don't like their children going into war. He's (ph) had to experience that, forgive the expression, body bag from the moms before. So he has to know that war is not an respond. There are very severe consequences to his aggression and that we are united in using them.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk near the state of affairs here at domicile. Families are feeling the hitting from the highest aggrandizement in xl years. Correct now it costs the average American family well-nigh $275 a month. What can Congress practise right now to bring those costs downwards?
PELOSI: Well, let me just talk about the inflation then. Considering people are saying, well, what nosotros're spending is causing -- the fact that people have jobs always contributes to increase in aggrandizement. That's a good thing. But inflation is not a good -- you know, we have to contain that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Wages are not keeping upwards with prices.
PELOSI: That'due south right. And let me merely say near what Congress has been doing. When nosotros did the COMPETES Act last -- what contributes to inflation? More people having jobs, scarcity of products, which makes the prices become upwards, and the balance. So when we passed the COMPETES Human activity last Friday, this was a behemothic stride forward. Now nosotros have to go to conference with the Senate and we will shortly. We'll send it to the president's desk. But what that does is addresses the supply chain shortages that nosotros have, and therefore, will decrease inflation.
Secondly, information technology'south of import to notation this about the BBB, the BBB is a deficit reduction pecker. It's a bill that -- some people say when you increase the national debt, you increase inflation. Seventeen Nobel laureates wrote that the -- the way the BBB was written with long-term investments and increasing the capacity of people to participate in our success is noninflationary.
In addition to that, the tax -- the Joint Revenue enhancement Committee, which is the imprimatur (ph) on all these issues, the Joint Tax Commission says that BBB will reduce the national debt past $100 billion in the first 10 years and $1 trillion in the second ten years. And then what we are doing is, what are the three effects (ph)? More people going to work. That's a good affair. More than product to lower the cost, you know, the supply side of -- the supply and more supply, lower costs.
And and so 3rd, and -- tertiary, the terms of not increasing the national debt.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But as y'all know, Senator Manchin, who is the senator that matters right now because he's against it, disagrees. He said it'due south going to injure inflation. Allow's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO Prune)
SENATOR JOE MANCHIN, (D-WV): This is not a time to exist throwing more than fuel on the fire. We accept an inflate -- we take inflation and nosotros have, basically, an economy that's on fire. You don't throw more fuel on the fire that is already on burn causing the problems that we take. So we've got to go our Firm in gild.
(Finish VIDEO Prune)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Without his vote, this isn't going anywhere.
PELOSI: Well, the fact is, is that -- clearly, he has -- yous know, look, Joe Manchin, equally you said, is the senator who counts, every senator counts. And we have legislation that is and so transformative for our country.
When you see what President Biden has washed in this twelvemonth, whether it'south the rescue parcel that has put money in people's pockets, taking people off poverty, vaccines in their arms and the rest, you know that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, but people aren't feeling information technology right now. They're upset.
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: No, I empathise that. No, I understand that, only there has to be a cumulative effect, a cumulative result.
And part of the consequences of all of that investment, the infrastructure beak and the rest, is that more people have jobs and, therefore, aggrandizement goes up. When I first went to Congress, you lot were at that place working for Dick Gephardt --
STEPHANOPOULOS: (INAUDIBLE) Dick Gephardt.
PELOSI: Yeah. We get all the way back. I went to my first meeting where the caput of the Fed came in to talk most inflation and unemployment. That was a requirement that the chairman reported to Congress on that. And the first thing Chairman Greenspan said was, unemployment is dangerously low.
Well, if you lot're just measuring it by inflation. Simply the fact is, that the rising in employment and President Biden has nearly 7 meg jobs in his year in office.
So, yes, we have inflation. It's very important for u.s.a. to address information technology. We must bring it down.
And -- merely is non -- it'south not correct -- with all the respect in the globe for my friend Joe Manchin -- it'southward non right to say what we're doing is contributing to the inflation considering information technology is exactly the reverse.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The other matter that is weighing --
PELOSI: Seventeen Nobel laureate, the Joint Taxation Committee.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The other thing that's weighing on people right now is ascension criminal offense. And there appear to be some divisions amid Democrats most how to handle it. Your colleague Karen Bass, running for mayor of Los Angeles, trying to increase the police forcefulness in L.A.
PELOSI: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Cori Bush, congresswoman from Missouri, is saying it'south fourth dimension to defund the police. She's sticking by that.
You're the speaker, how exercise you think Democrats should accost rising crime?
PELOSI: Well, with all the respect in the world for Cori Bush-league, that is not the position of the Democratic Party. Customs safety, to protect and defend in every style, is our adjuration of office.
And I have sympathy -- I -- we're all concerned about mistreatment of people. And that'southward why Karen Bass had the Justice and Policing Act. And we would hope to get some of that washed, whether it'south no-knock, chokehold, or some of those issues, fifty-fifty if nosotros can't get it all done.
But the -- but make no mistake, community safety is our responsibility. And I told one my colleagues from New York, Ritchie Torres, brand new member of Congress, fashion on the left, saying that defund the police is dead. That causes a concern with a few in our caucus.
But public rubber is our responsibility. And I support what Karen Bass is doing and Mayor Adams of New York.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Inflation, the rise crime are both weighing down on President Biden'southward approval ratings. Right now, they're weighing down on Democrats every bit we head into the midterms.
Yous say you're going to run again this year. But 29 of your fellow Democrats are not running for re-ballot.
How worried are you nigh the midterms right now?
PELOSI: I -- I don't afflict. I organize. And we are fully intent to win this election. Goose egg less is at stake.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about debunking history?
PELOSI: Well, forget history. Nosotros're talking about time to come, you know? And when people say, well, the history says that the presidents lose seats in the off year. Presidents proceeds seat but (INAUDIBLE).
We didn't proceeds seats when President Biden won. We worked together to win the Senate, win the House, and win the White House. It was cumulative, simply it wasn't an increase.
And 1 of the reasons that, in part, the president's party loses seats in the off years because they gain so many in the on-twelvemonth. We won 40 seats in '18, 31 in Trump districts. In this year with Trump on the ballot, we lost a third of those Trump seats.
However, the people who survived in those Trump seats with Trump on the ballot are in very good shape.
We accept goose egg for granted. We intend -- past redistricting, which did non do united states of america damage, equally people predicted, history and all that, by recruitment, groovy people coming forward believing that we tin can win, with raising of coin and attracting the support, and nigh raising interest in the volunteers. We have every intention every unmarried twenty-four hour period to practise everything in our power. Nosotros have decided to win and that'southward what we will do.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, if you maintain control, are yous going to run for speaker once more?
PELOSI: That's non a question. My purpose right now is merely to win that election. It's to win that ballot. Aught less is at stake than the -- our democracy.
Only, very important in all that is what it means personally to the American people, to their kitchen tabular array issues. Whether it's whether they're going to be able to pay for nutrient, for medicine, for rent, children's pedagogy, and the rest. So, our focus that unifies our Democrats -- you talked about what may have divided a few of them. What unifies u.s. is the -- is the empathy that we have for America'due south working families and the priority of meeting their needs.
Lower cost, bigger paychecks, lower taxes, all paid for past making anybody pay their fair share with a great president. I think his bulletin -- see, when we won in '06 and '08, we were left to our own devices. But us kids. Nosotros didn't have a Democrat in the White House. At present nosotros practise. So even stronger in ability to win. And who is more compassionate than Joe Biden? Who has more -- a bigger vision, more cognition, more strategic thinking about all this, more authenticity in associating with America'south working families?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Madam speaker, thanks for your time this morning.
PELOSI: Yeah. Onward to a dandy Democratic victory (ph). Thank yous.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Lindsey Graham joining usa next.
And, later, as the Jan 6th commission continues its investigation, a quondam Nixon aide who went to jail for the president shares his lessons learned from Watergate.
Nosotros'll exist correct back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(Brainstorm VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) JUDICIARY Commission & (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Trump and I, we've had a hell of a journey. I detest information technology beingness this style. Oh, my God, I hate it. From my point of view, he's been a consequential president. But, today, first thing yous'll see. All I tin can say is, count me out. Enough is enough.
(Stop VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Lindsey Graham on January 6, 2021. He joins us this morning time from Jerusalem.
Senator Graham, thank you for joining u.s. this morning.
We'll get to the events of Jan 6th afterward.
But I do desire to begin with the -- what the White House says is an imminent invasion of Ukraine by President Putin.
Are you lot convinced that Putin's going to go in?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) JUDICIARY Committee & (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: No, I'one thousand not, but I'one thousand convinced that nosotros could practise more in Congress and should. We've been working in a bipartisan fashion for about three weeks now to come up with pre-invasion, mail-invasion sanctions, and the White House keeps pushing dorsum.
And so, the best thing that could happen is for us to past this sanctions package, pre-invasion with a waiver, post-invasions sanctions that would destroy the ruble and cripple the Russian economy so Putin could see information technology in writing. That might help him decide non to invade
Simply we should be doing more in Congress.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, I'1000 surprised that you lot oasis't. I mean, as you said, the negotiations accept been stalled...
GRAHAM: Me, too.
STEPHANOPOULOS: ... in the Senate. You're saying the president is pushing back, but you lot likewise have some pushback from your Republican colleagues in the Senate?
GRAHAM: Yes, just not in a real, meaningful fashion. There's 70 votes in the torso for invasion sanctions, pre-invasion sanctions with a waiver, post-invasion sanctions. The problem has been secondary sanctions.
Information technology'due south not only enough to sanction a Russian bank. You want to sanction anybody that does business organisation with that banking concern. And we've really got to be hard on Nord Stream 2 as a cash moo-cow for Putin, and we need to have a robust fix of sanctions regarding the SWIFT program and then that Putin would understand that the relationship with the Usa would be forever changed.
And, finally, I desire to make that point. This is not the concluding president America will have. If Russian federation invades the Ukraine, you lot volition destroy the U.S.-Russian relationship for decades. And every president in the most term will exist put in a box when it comes to dealing with Russia. So I hope Putin understands that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you make of this overall strategy we're seeing from the assistants, releasing this intelligence nearly possible invasions, saying imminent invasions, maxim possibly there will be a faux flag functioning? Practice you remember that maybe has been constructive in pushing Putin back?
GRAHAM: I don't know. That's a really good question. I don't want to ring an alarm bell equally much as take action. They're telling united states of america the invasion is imminent. Merely they're not telling Putin with clarity what happens if you lot invade.
He should be punished at present. What I can't become over is that the world is allowing him to do all this without upshot. The guy took the Crimea in 2014. He'south got 100,000 troops amassed on the Ukrainian border and he's paying no price at all. So I'd like to hitting him now for the provocation and accept sanctions spelled out very conspicuously, what happens to the ruble and his oil and gas economy. I think that's what's missing.
We're talking way also much and we're doing too little.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, permit's run across what happens this calendar week.
Senator, in the meantime, I practise desire to ask you, information technology's been several years since you've been on the program. So this is our first chance since...
GRAHAM: Aye.
(LAUGHTER)
STEPHANOPOULOS: ... the Jan 6th riots to ask about your relationship with President Trump and his leadership with the Republican Party.
GRAHAM: Yeah.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, nosotros showed your comments from January 6th at the top. The next day you talked about the president'south accountability for assuasive the riot to happen. Only yous've also said the Republican Party can't win without him and the 2024 nomination is his for the taking.
So where practise things stand with you and President Trump correct now? Do you lot support his comeback in 2024?
GRAHAM: And so, number 1, it's his nomination for the taking in 2024, if he wants. If he wants to be the Republican nominee for the Republican Party, it's his for the taking. My floor comments were about the 2020 ballot. I am not contesting the 2020 election. I'd like to reform the system. The problems we institute in 2020 need to be addressed. But the 2020 ballot is over for me. Donald Trump is the most consequential Republican in the Republican Party today. He has a great risk of being president again in 2024. If he'll get-go comparing what he did as president versus what's going on now and how to fix the mess we -- nosotros're in. If he looks backward, I call up he's hurting his chances.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, yous've -- you said that to Bob Woodward besides. You said the president was going to have to change if he wanted to be competitive in 2024. He doesn't really show any signs of changing. He continues to lie about the 2020 ballot. A couple weeks ago he talked near pardoning the January 6th rioters. He called you a RINO...
GRAHAM: Yeah.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican In Proper name Simply...
(LAUGHTER)
... because you disagreed with that. There'southward no evidence that the president's going to change.
GRAHAM: Well, here'southward my statement about the president'southward state of affairs right now. He's the almost dominant figure in the Republican Party. I think Biden'southward approving ratings are in the tank because his policies are not working. For the president to win in 2024, he's got to talk about the future. He's got to talk about how to fix a broken edge, how to repair the impairment done through the Biden economical agenda and how to make the world a safer place.
I do believe, if he talked about what he's capable of doing and remind people what he did in the by, he has a take a chance to come dorsum. If he continues to talk nearly the 2020 election, I recollect it hurts his cause and, quite frankly, it hurts the Republican Political party.
STEPHANOPOULOS: He's planning to come to South Carolina and entrada for primary opponents of ii of your members of Congress, Republican members of Congress, Nancy Mace and Tom Rice. Is that helpful?
GRAHAM: Well, again, information technology's up to him who he wants to campaign for. I'grand non worried virtually united states of america taking back the Firm. We're going to take back the House unless we really screw this thing up. What I'g looking for is that America First agenda, similar we had a Contract With America. You remember 1994. What are we for as a Republican Party? How practise nosotros fix the problems created past the Biden administration?
That'southward what I call back is missing. Nosotros need a positive agenda to talk about how we can fix the time to come for America, repair the damage, rather than trying to purge the party. I think the best thing for the Republican Party is to talk about policy.
STEPHANOPOULOS: If you practice take the Senate dorsum, will you lot vote for Mitch McConnell equally Senate Republican leader?
In the past, y'all accept said that he's got to gear up his relationship with President Trump if he's going to earn your vote.
GRAHAM: Yeah.
Yes, I think whatsoever Republican leader in the House or the Senate has to have a working human relationship with President Trump, considering most Republicans like President Trump'southward policies. A lot of us wish he would look frontwards, non backward. Simply he's very popular considering he stands up to all the things that nearly Republicans believe need to be stood up to.
And and so Mitch McConnell, if he runs, or anyone else, I call back, would take to prove a working relationship with the president. Hither'south the expert news for the Republican Political party. We're back in the game, folks, after January the 6th, but it's mainly due to Autonomous failures. We're going to have to testify to people nosotros can do more but talk about the past.
We have got to prove to the people nosotros can push forwards a very positive time to come.
And I'chiliad in Jerusalem for the Iranian nuclear discussions, are very concerning to the Israelis. And the world needs to tell Iran before it'southward too late, what are the ruddy lines regarding their nuclear programme? And if we don't give the Iranians red lines, we could accept a war on our hands pretty apace between Israel and Islamic republic of iran.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I desire to inquire you about one final issue at home, the Supreme Court.
President Biden has a vacancy he's trying to fill. Is Judge Michelle Childs of Southward Carolina the simply Biden nominee y'all could support?
GRAHAM: I remember she'south the 1 that would go the most Republican votes.
I would exist very inclined support her because of her background. She didn't go to Harvard and Yale, which I recollect is a plus. She went to University of S Carolina. But nosotros will wait and see what President Biden does. Simply I take told him and his team that if yous nominate, Michelle Childs, she volition exist in the liberal camp, for sure, only she has a hell of a story.
And she would be somebody, I think, that could bring the Senate together and probably get more than 60 votes. Anyone else would be problematic.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Graham, thanks for your fourth dimension this morning. Safe travels.
GRAHAM: Thanks.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Roundtable is upwards next.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL Break)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Roundtable is hither and fix to go. We'll be right dorsum.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: New Yorkers, this is what we're waiting for -- tremendous progress after two long years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With our numbers continue to driblet and having the second highest vaccination rate in the state, we can safely make this shift.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now is the appropriate fourth dimension for me to announce rescind the mask mandate, effective immediately.
(Finish VIDEO Prune)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Governors across the state dropping mask mandates this week ahead of the Biden administration.
We'll talk about that on our roundtable, joined past Chris Christie, Donald Brazile, Sara Isgur, a veteran of the Trump Justice Department and now an annotator for ABC News, and Patrick Gaspar, president and CEO of the Center for American Progress.
Welcome to you all.
Donna, let me begin with you. Nosotros saw those Democratic governors. A lot of data exit this calendar week ahead of President Biden.
Are we in a decisive new phase of this pandemic?
BRAZILE: I call back so. We've seen three percent less deaths, 43 percentage less hospitalization. The cases are going down.
Merely I call up we should always be cautious about COVID. This is a virus that has been unpredictable in the past. We saw it from beta to delta to omicron. God knows nosotros don't want to get to omega or annihilation else in the Greek alphabet.
Just I remember the governors are doing it right. With public health officials maxim, await, it's -- it's decreasing. Maybe we should take steps to return to normal. But I -- I don't know what normal looks like until it'due south over.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Y'all were a governor. Governors have been driving this change from the offset.
CHRISTIE: Well, they have been and they should be, because as we know, dissimilar regions of the country have been impacted by this in different ways and at different paces. And so there could be a national overarching strategy virtually how you practice things. But the execution of private strategies has to exist done by the governors.
Only allow's be clear, the science that collection what happened this week was political science. Okay? Phil Murphy decides to withdraw the mask mandate --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Governor of New Bailiwick of jersey.
CHRISTIE: -- in New Bailiwick of jersey, right, because he had a near-death experience on Election Twenty-four hour period in November.
And it'south at present come public that they ran focus groups. That the Murphy administration in New Jersey ran focus groups mail service the election to find out what was bothering people the well-nigh. Mask mandates was at the elevation of that list. And, all of a sudden, Phil Tater, who's had the nigh severe lockdowns in -- in all the states in the state --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But circumstances have inverse.
CHRISTIE: Merely,, George, they haven't changed that significantly on the ground withal in many places. And -- and what collection this was politics. They're seeing how unpopular information technology is and they're moving abroad from it. That's the nature of our organization.
STEPHANOPOULOS: President Biden is staying cautious.
GASPARD: He's staying cautious because you accept to at the national level. Whatever chat most Covid should brainstorm with the fact that over 900,000 Americans accept perished from this illness. Huge, huge number and deepest respect, Governor, I agree with you that decisions take to exist made on the state by state regional footing, simply it's greatly cynical to say that Phil Spud made this conclusion because of politics. They've seen a lxx percentage reduction in Covid rates over the last vi weeks, a 70 percent reduction in new -- in new infections, right?
CHRISTIE: Afterward he did focus groups.
GASPARD: That'south why they're making this determination. They followed the data very, very closely, and they -- they're -- they're marrying the information to economic consequences and consequences in education as well. So they're following the trajectory of the science.
CHRISTIE: It'due south -- George, I -- you know, I don't want (INAUDIBLE) your testify, every bit much as I might like to, merely -- but it'due south only not truthful. And when -- and when Governor Potato was --
GASPARD: Seventy percentage reduction in six weeks. That's -- that is a fact. That is a fact.
CHRISTIE: Alibi me, when Governor Murphy was on national shows this week and was asked why, sir, if the mask mandates should be lifted, why are you delaying it a calendar month? He had -- what's the scientific reason for delaying information technology a month? He had no respond. You tin go back and look at the record. So, if he has scientific reason for doing information technology, he would give that scientific reason. He doesn't have one. Mayhap he should hire Patrick to give him the scientific reason.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, Sarah, the truth --
CHRISTIE: Just he doesn't take one with the staff he has in Trenton.
STEPHANOPOULOS: In that location's always going to be some degree of uncertainty with the scientific discipline.
ISGUR: I think that'southward true, just if it really were based on science, and then they would put out the numbers. In one case we go hospitalizations below this rate, then the mask mandates will elevator. You oasis't seen a single governor give out the metrics that they volition use in advance of them -- them using it. And the truth is that the simply science that has changed, in my view, is really around mask mandates in schools. Something we've known for quite a long time just this isn't June 2020. I think every American is fine with what happened in June 2020. Simply we now know that mask mandates in schools are doing nothing except learning loss. I hateful imagine kids trying to sympathize, elementary school kids understanding what you're proverb without being able to read your lips, emotional loss of non being able to read facial expressions. That's the science that we're going to find out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that's non the only science we take. And I think you're correct about the science correct there. You besides have science that the vaccinations worked, that the boosters work.
ISGUR: Yes, and when you look at polling, it gets pretty nuanced. Nearly Americans want everyone to be vaccinated. Most Americans are fine with some mask mandates. But they as well now are starting to understand the trade-offs of that, they're frustrated well-nigh the school learning loss, and they remember that anybody'southward had the opportunity to get vaccinated. And if they're not going to, fine. Motility on. And that'due south the political scientific discipline when you're heading into the midterms that Democrats, I retrieve, know that they're looking at very frustrated Americans.
GASPARD: Oh, Sarah, Sarah, they -- Sarah, let's -- let's be articulate, you're right that the polling is nuanced merely information technology'southward too inverse about a dozen times in the concluding 10 months or then. And we all know that if there'southward another variant, if there'southward whatever sense that the numbers are slipping, that Americans are going to shift again on mask mandates and vaccinations. So let's not say chop-chop that they want to motion on from -- from -- from all of this and --
ISGUR: They practice now. Things could modify. Of course they could change. Simply correct now.
GASPARD: At present. In the moment. As the president of the United States, Joe Biden can't just focus on the at present. He has to brand certain that we're prepared for any variants (ph) that may come in the near time to come, on economics and on health science.
ISGUR: Then why did they send out the tests terminal twelvemonth? Why didn't they transport out masks last year? Why doesn't every American accept a stack of N-95s?
GASPARD: We -- we -- nosotros have to -- we --
BRAZILE: But, you know what, they did do? They did -- they did -- they did send state and localities money.
GASPARD: They did, which every Republican voted against.
BRAZILE: And they too gave governors and others the right to figure out how to utilise that money. I mean, I keep saying, in D.C., our mayor, who is like our governor, she did the right thing, free testing, fabricated sure that -- that test kits were available. And so, the fact that these states are at present looking at the science and the data and they're maxim, wait, nosotros have fewer hospitalizations, we have fewer deaths, maybe it's time to showtime bringing it down a little bit. But, again, this is going to -- this is going to exist state past state, governor past governor. And we're going to have to figure out what the new test metrics will be as we lower these mandates.
CHRISTIE: And -- and I don't think we can be -- I don't think we tin can be naive about the fact that there are 36 governor'south races coming upwards in the next 7 or eight months.
GASPARD: That's right.
CHRISTIE: And that there is a political element to this. And Sarah is right, that the American people are frustrated by this. They don't want to bargain with this any longer. They do feel like the vaccines accept at present been bachelor for a long time. And if certain Americans take decided not to exist vaccinated, that'due south their choice and they want to motion on, if they have been.
And then, you know, the politics of this are -- always been an element of it. Not perchance in May or June of 2020, merely certainly since that time, politics have been an element of it and we have to be aware of that.
BRAZILE: Yes, we weaponized it. Nosotros weaponized public wellness. We've weaponized, you know, basic science and so that people are agape. The disinformation on the vaccines is nonetheless running rampant in our communities across the country.
CHRISTIE: It's not running rampant, Donna.
BRAZILE: It is.
CHRISTIE: Yous have a -- you accept an overwhelming majority of the American people who are vaccinated. So if this data was working, the overwhelming majority of the American people who are vaccinated. Then if this information was working, the overwhelming majority of people in this country would not be vaccinated.
BRAZILE: Well, and so why are...
CHRISTIE: So...
BRAZILE: ... parents hesitant to get their kids...
CHRISTIE: And so if you lot want to focus on the minority of people who are maxim no, simply the fact is...
STEPHANOPOULOS: That grouping's never going to alter.
CHRISTIE: But that's my betoken, is similar, that doesn't testify disinformation is working. Judge what, in our society, finding any result where 85 percent or xc percentage of the American people agree with each other...
GASPARD: Governor -- Governor, let's be articulate that this disinformation did work until many employees in the private sector and the public sector were forced to get vaccinated as a consequence of some of these mandates. So let's non only say it didn't take any issue at all.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I desire to move on to inflation. Donna, you know, watching the Democrats, watching President Biden, first inflation was transitory; at present it seems like it'southward here to stay, at least for awhile. And it doesn't appear that Democrats have an answer across Build Dorsum Better.
BRAZILE: First of all, aggrandizement is a global problem. And it'southward -- and information technology'due south as well a problem that I think the president is rightfully addressing with the supply concatenation issue. He'due south besides addressing information technology with every tool at his disposal to try to piece of work with corporations to lower the prices of fuel at the gas pump and besides to ensure we take, y'all know, our food supplies in stock.
This is a global problem that was exposed during the pandemic. And the fact is, I recall the president is going to work extremely hard to try to get more legislation on the books that volition try to reduce some of these causes. Only we've got to -- at that place'southward another bigger story here. And that is the economy is doing well. But inflation is eating at all of united states of america.
CHRISTIE: George, expect, let's starting time with the gas pumps. If President Biden would put aside his ecology calendar for a moment, if he wants to deal with inflation, I spoke to the governor of North Dakota 2 weeks ago. He is being forced by the Biden administration to go on 500,000 barrels of oil a day in the basis in North Dakota.
If those 500,000 barrels of oil a day were immune to be produced, two things would happen. It would help the price on gas. And, ii, we wouldn't have Joe Biden begging OPEC to increase.
Look, if you lot're worried almost global warming, yous'd say "I want to keep the oil in the ground." Whether the oil comes out of the ground in Kingdom of saudi arabia or North Dakota, it has the same effect on global warming. But Joe Biden doesn't desire to do that within America and he'southward existence a hypocrite virtually it.
Let N Dakota, let Pennsylvania, allow Texas reach their quotas and have a greater supply. And I don't know, Donna, I took basic economic science in college. Greater supply deals with this demand we have and will lower prices.
GASPARD: That is basic economics, Governor. You're correct about that.
CHRISTIE: Information technology is.
GASPARD: And we all know that inflation has been caused by the global economies shutting down all at once, reopening all at once. And the fact of the matter is, as Donnas said, that the U.Southward. economy is recovering at a far faster pace than any other country in the OECD. That is -- that is an absolute fact.
On your -- your -- what you just said about oil, this is non a choice between inflation and climate and environmentalism. Information technology just isn't. Strategic reserves take been released and steps have been taken to mitigate some of these costs.
And we also capeesh that there are some existent legitimate limitations to what the president of the United States and Congress tin can practise in this moment. Nonetheless, they have to think long-term in the time to come of bringing down costs. Donna is right that some elements in BBB volition certainly bring down family unit intendance costs and pharmaceutical costs and energy costs, as well, and should be passed.
Only permit's talk well-nigh what Republicans are doing. The 2008 Trump taxation cutting, for instance...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Xviii.
GASPARD: In 2018 -- incentivized corporations to move jobs overseas, to move manufacture overseas, in a way that has blocked upwardly supplies hither in the U.Southward. at present today, has contributed to the inflation.
It's true, Governor. It's actually the example.
ISGUR: Nosotros're talking about aggrandizement from this very large perspective. Gas prices matter. Just, look, yous want to talk about the politics of the midterm elections, the 2008 financial crunch, which was too a global phenomenon, was largely felt by men in the economy. I think, when we look dorsum at the fourth dimension in history, nosotros will meet the Trump phenomenon really being far more than related to the 2008 financial crisis than anything else.
This pandemic is almost labor shortages at present. That'south what's driving inflation, and that is being driven past women out of the work force, at this betoken, because of child care issues, because schools are closing, open up, closing, open, considering of aggrandizement now, that they can't afford the groceries. That's what's going to drive these midterm elections when we look back on information technology, is the labor shortages caused by women, caused past schools. And they're going to hold Democrats responsible for that.
GASPARD: Sarah is completely right that the -- the circumstances for women in this economic system absolutely driving some of the challenges that we have in the workforce. Democrats conspicuously have a solution effectually some of the care economy proposals that Biden and...
ISGUR: They're not standing up to the teachers wedlock. That'due south what would assistance a lot, is having -- women having regular didactics admission.
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARD: Sarah, that is...
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARD: That's pretty myopic. This has almost literally nothing to do...
ISGUR: The head of the teachers union is still saying mask mandates are necessary, that school closures are necessary.
GASPARD: ... with the fight with the teachers union right now. We have these -- we had these challenges around women and the economic system and the care economy before the pandemic.
And there are...
ISGUR: Non nearly at this level.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: And in that location's another beak on Capitol Loma, the American Competitive Act -- the speaker spoke to it earlier today -- that would likewise reduce prices and requite Americans more relief.
The fact is, we accept got to start producing things at home. We accept a supply chain trouble because...
CHRISTIE: Well...
BRAZILE: ... equally Patrick mentioned, the 2018 Trump taxation cuts, which incentivized people to offshore many of our products.
CHRISTIE: Donna, I listened to the speaker in your interview.
When a speaker is looking in the camera, and her message for the American people this morning is, don't worry nearly it because 17 Nobel laureates agree with u.s.a., you know what they say? I went to the gas station and tried to get gas and, in the Northeast right now, information technology's $1 a gallon more than information technology was a twelvemonth agone.
That's what they understand.
ISGUR: Craven is $viii.
(CROSSTALK)
CHRISTIE: So, that'south what they empathise.
ISGUR: Tin can't get broccoli.
(CROSSTALK)
CHRISTIE: This is a political truism. When the economy and things are going well, the president gets undue credit.
GASPARD: Yes.
CHRISTIE: And when they're going poorly, he's got to take the responsibility.
And when he'southward keeping oil in the ground in the Us and begging OPEC for more, that's bad policy.
GASPARD: Governor, it's also a political truism that you can't beat something with nothing.
When we get to November, Americans are going to be helped to sympathise that in that location is a comparative analysis here. Every Democrat voted for a stimulus package, voted for being able to become resources into the hands of Americans, so that, in 2021, the boilerplate American family had $340 more per month than they did before the pandemic in '20 and 2019.
And that's when you account for aggrandizement as well. Every unmarried Republican voted against those measures, every last one. That matters.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sarah, that'south the positive Democratic bulletin right at that place.
I think a lot of Democrats are besides hoping that President Trump stays in the way.
ISGUR: 2022, if it's a referendum on Joe Biden's economy, Joe Biden's agenda, Democrats are going to lose the Firm and the Senate.
Nevertheless, if Republicans go along talking about 2020, and the election being stolen, and thinking that Donald Trump -- these voters existed earlier Donald Trump. He is the issue of these voters. He didn't create these voters. And and then if they keep kowtowing to that, Republicans make information technology a referendum about themselves, I think Patrick'due south exactly right. They will not take back the Senate.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Fifty-fifty Lindsey Graham had a alarm for the president there.
CHRISTIE: Well, he -- in Lindsey Graham's way, he did.
(LAUGHTER)
GASPARD: Fifty-fifty while saluting him.
CHRISTIE: While fulsomely praising him, he did take a warning.
(LAUGHTER)
CHRISTIE: But y'all need a Lindsey Graham translator, and to listen to it.
What Lindsey Graham was maxim was exactly correct, and what many of united states of america have been saying for a long fourth dimension. Politicians, no matter who you are, Donald Trump or everyone else, who looks backwards are losers. The politicians who put forward a plan for the future and wait forward are the ones who have a chance to win.
And then Republicans have to decide, what do we want to be, losers or winners?
STEPHANOPOULOS: I have to ask you lot a question.
Do you think Donald Trump wants Republicans to win if he's not the head of the party?
CHRISTIE: Oh, well, look, I have -- y'all're asking me to go within that and figure that out?
(LAUGHTER)
CHRISTIE: I don't know.
But I will tell you this, George.
GASPARD: Yes, you exercise.
CHRISTIE: I recollect what he has shown...
GASPARD: Yes, yous do, Governor.
(LAUGHTER)
CHRISTIE: I think what he has shown is, he has shown that what he cares well-nigh the about is himself and vindication for what he believes happened to him in 2020. He'due south wrong well-nigh that.
And that's what he cares about the most. And when he'southward calling Mitch McConnell names and doing all this stuff that he'southward been doing, look, it's non helpful for the Republican Political party.
(CROSSTALK)
ISGUR: Fascinating data at present, when Donald Trump endorses a candidate, it actually doesn't do much to help them.
When he attacks a candidate, it can hurt them in the primary, unquestionably. Only Republicans need to think about, what does that mean well-nigh these voters? And what does it mean about Donald Trump as the leader of the party?
CHRISTIE: Correct.
ISGUR: If his endorsement doesn't mean annihilation, these voters aren't following Donald Trump. It is something...
(CROSSTALK)
CHRISTIE: Look at what has happened to Brian Kemp in Georgia, OK?
The concluding poll that came out, Brian Kemp is beating David Perdue by vii points in Georgia. He's beating Stacey Abrams by five points.
GASPARD: Yep. Yes.
CHRISTIE: Perdue, with the Trump endorsement, is behind Kemp in the main and even with Stacey Abrams in a general poll. That tells you lot something about what the endorsement means.
BRAZILE: Just, Chris, Governor, he's causing chaos.
We know what happens when you take -- when you take positions in a master. He'due south causing chaos and division within the Republican Party.
I think what the Republican Party needs to figure out is whether or not they are going to be a party that stands for something or but stands for the one-time president. And that is a challenge, considering what you encounter in Washington is that people are agape to stride over that bright blood-red line of challenging Trump.
And, therefore, what they're doing is...
ISGUR: Less than before. Pence. McConnell.
CHRISTIE: Yeah.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is going to have to be...
CHRISTIE: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That'south the last word.
Give thanks yous all very much.
Upwards side by side, l years since Watergate, and ane of the President Nixon's elevation aides on the lessons he learned, why they might be relevant today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS WEEK" Ballast: Dwight Chapin simply 21 years old when he went to piece of work for Richard Nixon in 1962, 34 when he went to prison for him -- convicted of lying to a chiliad jury about Watergate.
In his new book, "The President's Man: The Memoir's of Nixon's Trusted Adjutant", Chapin details life inside the White Firm and the lessons he learned 50 years ago that are so relevant today.
Our political director Rick Klein spoke with him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK KLEIN, ABC NEWS POLITICAL DIRECTOR (voice-over): As special banana to the president, Dwight Chapin'due south job to conceptualize Richard Nixon's every move. But non necessarily follow his command.
DWIGHT CHAPIN, Former Aide TO PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON: I worked for him over such a long period of fourth dimension that information technology was nearly second nature to me. I knew how he thought or what he -- how he would want a certain situation to unfold. And that became, really, my credential, if you lot will, because I was able to anticipate the exactly where he wanted to go and what he wanted to do.
KLEIN: Yous said that frequently that people around Nixon were saving Nixon from Nixon. Haldeman's words, right. What did that mean in practice?
CHAPIN: What it means is, that sometimes the president would ask that something exist done and it was important not necessarily to follow through.
KLEIN: The White House adjutant was at Nixon's side for central moments in history, including that historic start trip to China.
RICHARD NIXON, Erstwhile PRESIDENT: We have been here a week. This was the week that inverse the world.
CHAPIN: The China opening in 1972 needs to be remembered for what it was, which was the almost dramatic, diplomatic trip in the history of any president. And its -- the consequences of it have been immense. And, of form, we're in the middle of this now.
When Nixon went, information technology was a geopolitical thing where he was dealing with Russian federation on i side and China on the other. It's kind of interesting to look at the Olympics that are about ready to end and the fact that Putin and the China leader are there together and the United States is kind of missing from activity in terms of any official what role and that's non what Nixon would take wanted.
RICK KLEIN, ABC NEWS POLITICAL Manager (voice over): Nixon'due south strange policy accomplishments were eclipsed by the scandal that took down his presidency, along with much of his inner circle.
CHAPIN: I was a political football. I ended up in the wrong place at the incorrect fourth dimension. The proper name of the game was non to get Dwight Chapin. The proper noun of the game was to bring downwardly Richard Nixon.
KLEIN: The first to go along trial in connection with to the Watergate intermission in, Chapin writes that Nixon could be unsentimental in his use of people, only harbors no regrets about his years of loyal service.
KLEIN (on camera): He was pardoned and information technology's never bothered you that he was part while you and others went to prison defending him?
CHAPIN: It's never bothered me. And I would say that anyone that thinks about it, the fact that he had to resign and go out office put him through his own hell. That was his incarceration.
KLEIN (voice over): He sees parallels to today with the political scandal involving White Firm records, congressional and criminal probes, and aides caught in the middle.
KLEIN (on camera): At that place'due south so many people now, many of them as young every bit y'all were and then, who are caught up in all of these investigations and they're being subpoenaed by congressional committees. So many people in former President Trump'south orbit are now caught up in this maustrum (ph) that seems like it's a never ending thing. What -- what exercise you say to them?
CHAPIN: Lesser line, honesty. Tell the truth. Permit the chips fall where they may. You lot can always recover. I'm living proof that you can recover.
(Finish VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Rick Klein for that.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL Interruption)
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World NEWS TONIGHT." And I'll see y'all tomorrow on "GMA."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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